Episode 58 – Beyond the Winter Blues: Addressing Seasonal Depression and Loneliness at Work

Mike Stull (0:09)

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to a new season of HR Benecast, Season 11. This is your host, Mike Stull. It’s officially been over 10 years, which is hard to believe since we first launched this podcast.

So if you’re new here, welcome. And if you’ve listened before, thank you and welcome back. As always, you can find more Employers Health resources by checking out the links in the episode description.

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I’ve had the opportunity to work with a lot of great guests over the last decade, and this episode is no different. Today I’m joined by ComPsych’s Manager of Clinical Programs, Erin Dubba, to discuss a very important topic this time of year, seasonal depression and loneliness in the workplace.

Erin, welcome to HR Benecast. To get started, tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what you do at ComPsych.

Erin Dubba (1:21)

Sure. I’ve been with ComPsych for just about four years coming up. I love it.

I entered into EAP coming out of COVID and a deep dive into my personal successes and interests and likes and dislikes of every job I ever had and landed at EAP. And it’s been a phenomenal move for me. The title, the Clinical Programs Manager, comes out of a lifelong love for programming.

So this is actually a second career for me. I started with arts administration, and I have an arts background, and I have been involved in programming and educational initiatives for a very long time. It’s near and dear to my heart, became a counselor at a certain point, made it made a shift, loved that as well.

But again, COVID shifted so many things for so many people, myself included. So here I am.

Mike Stull (2:24)

Well, that’s a great background to have for the topic we’re discussing. As someone who does not have many artistic capabilities, I have learned very much about the healing power of art and of sound and music. And it is quite powerful and quite connected to the topic of seasonal depression and loneliness.

And so to get us started, for benefits professionals out there, we know that this is real, but how do you spot signs of it? And particularly in the workplace, how do you spot that seasonal depression or loneliness is affecting an employee or a group of employees?

Erin Dubba (3:16)

It’s a great question, and I think the signs would mimic signs of a lot of other potential concerns or disorders. So things like depression or anxiety. So conversations would need to be had to sort of fetter out what might be underlying around that.

And we can talk more about that later. But I think everything that you would expect. So things like performance issues.

So drops, drops where they used to be high performing, maybe even overperforming as a coping skill. Decreased engagement. So they’re just less, they’re less talkative during meetings.

Social isolation. So somebody who may be used to have lunch with others is now eating alone or leaving the office and not engaging socially. Certainly, if you’re seeing behavioral or emotional shifts that weren’t there before.

So somebody is more irritable. Maybe they’re getting angry more frequently. Maybe they’re just seeming more sad or negative.

And then cognitively, they’re maybe struggling with focus or memory. It’s contextual to work, right? So what you’re noticing as a change in someone who used to be, used to maybe be on point and is now forgetting, maybe used to be a high performer and is now not, or maybe used to be somebody who was much more social and is not.

So when you’re noticing that level of change.

Mike Stull (4:58)

And certainly from an employee perspective, you know, you can spot these signs in yourself. And if you do that, you know, are there things that an individual can do on their own to help mitigate these challenges?

Erin Dubba (5:16)

Yeah. So I think this is a great, it’s so interesting to talk about what can somebody do to help when they’re by themselves to help not feel lonely. But the answer is really self-care and build resiliency.

Resiliency is a word that I think gets, you know, put out there a lot. And sometimes people think of it as a characteristic that you either have or you don’t. But the reality is that resiliency can be built just like joy can be built.

These things do take some effort. And self-care, of course, is important for everyone. But it’s a huge foundational piece to resiliency.

And resiliency is the core of being able to manage stress and being able to manage times when things are low. We can talk a little bit more about seasonal affective disorder and that it’s hard this time of year for somebody who might otherwise engage out in the world. And maybe because of where they live, like I’m an hour outside of Chicago, we just had a snow squall today.

You know, things shift in the winter and it’s harder to engage, maybe outside in the world the way that you used to. I don’t want to minimize because seasonal affective disorder is not like winter blues. It’s much more serious.

But these things do have an impact. So working with someone to try and help them figure out and that’s where counseling and things like that come in. But try to help them figure out how to be more engaged for themselves.

Mike Stull (6:45)

Yeah, and certainly I know that sometimes when you’re feeling these things, it’s tough. Even if you know you should go out and get engaged, it’s tough to do that. So intentionality plays a big part, at least it has for me personally.

You mentioned counseling. A lot of our employers offer EAP wellness type programs. Are there specific examples of how these programs can make a difference for someone who’s experiencing either seasonal depression or the loneliness?

Erin Dubba (7:29)

Yeah, so it depends on your EAP, of course, and what they offer. But I think generally most EAPs offer counseling services. So that’s probably top on the list for a lot of things.

I think some EAPs also offer things related to like clinical care navigation, helping when somebody calls in, helping them to get linked. Sometimes factors are compounded by other things. So if the program’s comprehensive, they might also have things like legal resources, financial ret’s one thing for me to say, you know, there’s lots of things in the winter you can do like go skiing or ice skating. But if somebody doesn’t have the financial resources for that, that’s not very helpful information. So financials do certainly play a role.

And sometimes in people’s isolative factors. So figuring that piece out. Some EAP programs have coaching.

I know ours does. Some of them have apps like an almost like a computerized CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy program. So lots of things sort of in direct support services.

I do think that a lot of EAPs also offer support in general for the organization. So that might be like management trainings, leadership training. Sometimes we assessed, I know directly Comp Psych assists with lunch and learns around various topics.

So helping to normalize topics, helping to assist in education, not just about what EAPs offer, but education on the topic itself.

Mike Stull (9:14)

Absolutely. When we think about how these these impact different people, certainly age is going to play some part in it. And so different generations may experience loneliness, seasonal depression differently.

And, you know, what are some of the causes for that?

Erin Dubba (9:42)

So multigenerational workforces, I think, are a factor here and for young adults, so that these would be your new hires or your folks who recently transitioned into their first, maybe, career position. These are individuals who have recently transitioned, maybe out of the home or out of college. Their friend group is maybe scattered.

They’ve lost a lot of connections recently for various reasons. So they’re struggling to find a sense of community. They’re struggling to understand identity for themselves in this role and their career.

So there’s lots of struggles there. I think being age 45 and older certainly puts anyone more at risk for loneliness and depression. So just to say that out loud, I certainly fall into that age group, so I know that’s hard to hear.

Middle-aged adults, so they’re probably facing things like divorce, career pressures, empty nesters. They’re also maybe questioning their career. They’re at a point where they’re starting to look ahead to retirement and they’re questioning where they are at in their lives.

So again, identity questions come up. And then older adults and seniors, as my father is fond of saying, he goes to more funerals than anything at this point in his life, which is sad. And so there’s a lot within that statement for him and I think for those folks where they are losing.

They’re losing so much. They’re losing friends. They might have a loss of a spouse.

They’re losing health in that they’re having more health issues. Certainly, I think some folks even have an awareness of loss of cognitive abilities. It’s harder.

So there’s a lot of struggles there. And then combine that maybe with an older generation who is maybe returning to work, like post-retirement, they’re returning to work for various reasons. And there’s technical struggles.

So there’s just a lot of challenges there that I think can be isolative.

Mike Stull (12:01)

So as we think about this from an employer perspective, figuring out how to measure the impact of these experiences, whether it’s loneliness, whether it’s seasonal depression and ways to measure the effectiveness of any interventions, what have you seen in terms of best practices in measurement?

Erin Dubba (12:27)

That is a tricky question. There isn’t a direct way of doing it. There are some scales and assessments.

There’s a loneliness scale UCLA has. The PHQ-9, that is the patient health questionnaire. You’ve probably gotten some questions from that at some point in your life.

You know, a sense of, you know, have you felt sad in the last two weeks? That has a long-established history with screening and monitoring for depression in particular. And then pre- and post-testing around things is a good way of measuring.

So asking the questions before you begin some sort of treatment or therapy or counseling and then asking after. I would say that oftentimes evidence-based care, so evidence-based care would be, it’s been researched, it’s been studied, certainly CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, DBT, dialectical behavioral therapy, ACT, acceptance commitment therapy. Those things hit the marks for being really effective.

When you’re talking about EAP in particular, you’re talking about solution-focused therapy, which is also evidence-based because usually it’s a limited amount of sessions.

Mike Stull (13:49)

And certainly, we look at pure participation rates and whether it’s wellness programs or EAP programs, just making sure people know about them and that they use them. And sometimes when folks don’t use them, it’s, could be because of a stigma. And so I’m curious if you have any practical steps on how benefits teams can reduce stigma and encourage employees to use these types of resources.

Erin Dubba (14:25)

Yeah, I think about this question a lot. I don’t want anyone to be marginalized or isolated in their lives. So if we can work on training from the top down and help with that, I think that’s always ideal.

So I think allowing for and fostering connections, so gatherings, places where connection and socialization are the goal. So those are your, you know, holiday parties, your scavenger hunts, your photo boards. At my husband’s company, they have a pet photo board.

Those are ways that people can help connect, right? And then certainly addressing needs and challenging experiences and isolation. So that means debriefing after you know that there’s been a challenging experience for an individual or for a team.

Certainly one-on-ones that are scheduled, I think, can be helpful. But then also, you know, I guess it used to be called open door policy remotely. I’m not sure what we’d call it, but just check-ins.

And not necessarily related to work, right? Like, how are you? What’s, you know, what’s going on?

It might be related to work, but it’s more about the person. Like, how are you doing? What’s going on?

So those are some just practical things. At a higher level, I can answer from, like, employee resource groups. I think employee resource groups are certainly helpful.

They’re also free. You know, they help with reducing isolation and creating safe spaces, having a mental health ambassador or mental health champion. So someone who’s maybe not HR specific, but can be a connection in that they identify maybe with a certain community.

And so that can be that sort of steward or, yeah, I think ambassador is a good word. And then mental health awareness campaigns. So that’s your Lunch and Learns, that’s your, you know, it’s, you know, it’s this month, it’s that month.

It’s, you know, it’s helping to shift the culture and helping to promote a sense of normalcy around it. And then certainly, and this is where I think it gets very specific to different companies, but any type of flexible work opportunities, accommodations and time off and having leaders who are willing to share their own challenges. So there’s a vulnerability there and a relatability.

Mike Stull (17:03)

You mentioned the remote workers versus maybe employees that are coming into an office every day. Are there different ways to support a remote employee versus an employee that you’re seeing physically in the office?

Erin Dubba (17:31)

Yeah, I think it’s trickier because body language can be difficult to read. I have certainly some members on my team that I find very difficult to read. I’ve actually had that conversation with them, and I’ve let them know that they’re going to need to be maybe a little bit more direct with me if something is going on.

So just, I think in large part, it’s knowing your employee. And if you don’t know them, it’s trying to get to know them and having those conversations. Certainly, all the same ways that you would do in office, you can do remotely.

You have to be more creative, right? Like we did just have a scavenger hunt as part of our holiday gathering, as part of our winter gathering. And it included things like mugs and paper fasteners and tea and coffee and floss and things like that.

So certainly, you can offer opportunities for connection. I think in addition, picking up the phone and calling rather than emailing, you can always follow up with an email. If you need to, you can always follow up with an email and say, just to recap our conversation.

But actually connecting is huge. I’ve started an open-door policy. I’m doing air quotes around that, where I just have an, everyone on my team has a meeting link for, it’s actually today, Wednesdays at 2 p.m. Central, and they can just pop in and I’m just there. I’m working, but I’m there. So lots of ways, I think.

Mike Stull (19:09)

Yeah, I like that idea. We, during COVID, obviously it was a whole new experience for a lot of us here at Employers Health. And using Teams or Zoom or even FaceTime or another app on the phone was incredibly useful.

And just check in, end of the day, check in. I had one employee who accused me of Face Timing every day at 445 just to see the chaos that was going on at his house with his young kids. And that might have been partially true, but it was always a fun time just to check in to see how his day had been going.

So last question for this episode and for this conversation, I should say, is just, you know, what advice would you give benefits professionals to proactively support employee mental health and social connection year-round? You’ve mentioned a few different ideas that I think give people a good place to start. Anything else that you would provide in terms of advice?

Erin Dubba (20:24)

I think for benefits professionals specifically, certainly staying educated, so attending trainings, but also offering trainings, everything from how to have a difficult conversation. So that could be, you know, one of the signs and symptoms that there’s a shift in somebody might be a hygiene change. And so now we’re trying to have a conversation potentially with someone about smell and body odor.

And so that is a difficult conversation, but that is maybe nothing compared to someone who’s suicidal, right? So like difficult conversations are difficult. So how to have those, how to support someone who is maybe planning on leaving for a family leave or maybe coming back from some sort of leave, a bereavement leave, a family leave.

So staying on top of those, that kind of level of communication and then normalizing concerns. So again, that culture, like really trying to create a culture where normalcy is a part, mental health concerns are part of what we care about and what we help you with. Certainly providing peer support, I think fostering connections, but also helping people with resources for connections.

Work isn’t always the answer. And quite frankly, as much as I love comms, like I’m working for EAP, EAP isn’t always the answer either. So, you know, for companies that have in-person employees who are local to their area, knowing what resources are available in your community can be huge.

And then helping to build community at work as well. So, yeah, that’s the more general answer.

Mike Stull (22:12)

Excellent. Well, Erin, we really appreciate you taking time to have this conversation with us today.

Erin Dubba (22:19)

You’re welcome.

Mike Stull (22:20)

If you’ve enjoyed today’s conversation or the topics near and dear to your heart and want to hear more from ComPsych or to dive deeper into loneliness in the workplace, we have two on-demand webinars you can check out in the episode description. Don’t forget to subscribe to HR Benecast to be notified when new episodes are released. And thank you for taking the time to listen and for your continued support, participation and interest in Employers Health.

Be well and we’ll see you soon.